The New Rules of Engagement   (17/05/2010)

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The Dispossessed
The Palestinians would argue that all of Israel exists as a result of dispossessing Palestinians. I supported the withdrawal of Israeli settlements from Gaza and I support withdrawing many, if not most, settlements from the West Bank. I reject the argument that the Palestinians are a dispossessed people. Those who live on the West Bank live in Palestine. Arguably, those living in Jordan do so also. The negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority address issues involving those Palestinians not currently living in Palestine. When the PA agrees that repatriation to Palestine means Ramallah and not Jaffa, some progress will be made in resolving this issue.
Ronald Sommer, USA, Jun 6 2010 6:55:00:000PM

This is fine but overlooks the dipossessi
I have no problem with a Jewish state that isnt carved out of the land of a dispossessed people. This is also the position at international law. The best way for Hartman to promote this kind of thinking is to help reverse the illegal settlements so that Jews and Palestinians can build a positive peaceful future.
Ben Clarke, Australia, May 30 2010 11:27:00:000AM

work in progress, not project
Living in the diaspora gives one a perspective on the difficulties of explaining Israel is a way that fosters understanding and patience. This effort to give structure to innovative thinking is to be welcomed. One suggestion, however, that Israel not be thought of as a project. It implies that if the project doesn`t succeed, it should be terminated as unsuccessful projects are. Rather the term "work in progress" is constructive, if one remembers that the entire history of Israel, in the land and outside, is from the beginning a "work in progress". Such a term invites patience since it is as formulated not yet at its "best", but at the stage of its achievement that is feasible given the people, the situation, the political and military context in which Israel finds itself. Acknowledging incompleteness and imperfection, even gross mistakes, awakens sympathy and openness. And at all times, the emphasis by Israel of the suffering that is caused by the incompleteness of this "work in progress" some of it due to Israel`s shortcomings but also in large part due to the shortcomings of those who oppose Israel in principle. That is the sad reality, but not one in which the Jewish people should become despondent over, since there are real people living in Israel. they deserve a commitment for the long haul, not only by those within, but by those without. Thank you Hartman Institute for this challenging engagement.
Tzvi Marx, Netherlands, May 30 2010 10:27:00:000AM


The main problem with that article is looking at Israel as some kind of project. This is ridiculous. Israel is a state with army and nuclear weapons, with people who were born there and live there. It is not a project. Calling it a project gives all Jews an excuse for all the mistakes Israel does while there should be no excuses. Do us Jews all a favor and stop calling it a project, stop citing anti-semitism all the time, stop recalling Holocaust. We Jews are pretty strong these to use all these excuses.
Greg, USA, May 26 2010 5:30:00:000PM

A positive statement
I read Donniel Hartman `s statement as a very positive preliminary effort to outline a path of thought, which will make the Jewish state both more moral and more secure.
Shalom Freedman, Israel , May 26 2010 10:29:00:000AM

Israel & the diaspora
I love Israel, but I no longer engage in arguments with critics. It is simply impossible to defend the settlers, the occupation, and the orthodox monopoly on religious and civil matters. I think Israelis are living in a bubble in which they are increasingly only talking to themselves. Certainly that is true in your politics with the posturing for internal consumption. Zionism is almost non-existent among young American Jews, and the word "diaspora" means almost nothing here. Your problems will not be solved by "positions" or some kind of propaganda. The only way I see the Jewish state surviving would be to clear out the settlers, form a completely secular government, and get real about making a workable deal with the Palestinians.
Michael Lipsey, U.S., May 26 2010 7:07:00:000AM

speaking as an Israeli... You`ve not read UNSC Res
1701 ? "In the North we have Hizbulla with more arms that it had before the recent `war with Lebanon`. This is inspite of the fact that the UN was meant to halt the flow of arms to Hizbulla, when in fact there is evidence of them helping Hizbulla" Best you actually read what you`re commenting on. http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2006/sc8808.doc.htm //“Welcoming the efforts of the Lebanese Prime Minister and the commitment of the Government of Lebanon, in its seven-point plan, to extend its authority over its territory, through its own legitimate armed forces, such that there will be no weapons without the consent of the Government of Lebanon and no authority other than that of the Government of Lebanon, welcoming also its commitment to a United Nations force that is supplemented and enhanced in numbers, equipment, mandate and scope of operation, and bearing in mind its request in this plan for an immediate withdrawal of the Israeli forces from southern Lebanon,// //“Welcoming the unanimous decision by the Government of Lebanon on 7 August 2006 to deploy a Lebanese armed force of 15,000 troops in South Lebanon as the Israeli army withdraws behind the Blue Line and to request the assistance of additional forces from UNIFIL as needed, to facilitate the entry of the Lebanese armed forces into the region and to restate its intention to strengthen the Lebanese armed forces with material as needed to enable it to perform its duties,//
talknic, Australia, May 24 2010 1:48:00:000PM

Israel providing the only hope for refuge?
Scotland, Japan, China, Australia and numerous other countries were friendly to Jewish folk seeking refuge. "the seemingly never-ending crises to which Israel is subjected." Something to do with illegally acquiring the territory out side of it`s Sovereign boundaries? Just a though, you seem to have missed it COMPLETELY.
talknic, Australia, May 24 2010 1:40:00:000PM

the responses
I am amazed at the negativity of these four responses. Can people not see that the occupation, difficult though it might be, is a difficult issue. People forget that had Arafat had some strength, there would be an independent Palestinian state today. As for the behavior of some Israeli tourists, how can any intelligent individual, especially one who has experience teaching in Israel, allow such a generalization? As for the document itself, it seems quite willing to face certain realities of the current Israel-Diaspora relationship. As for the absence of the occupation in specificity, I see it all over the place by implication. People need to learn how to read.
Phil Cohen, US, May 24 2010 3:15:00:000AM

speaking as an Israeli
The Palistinian refugee problem is only one of our problems, in spite of what you may think. In the North we have Hizbulla with more arms that it had before the recent `war with Lebanon`. This is inspite of the fact that the UN was meant to halt the flow of arms to Hizbulla, when in fact there is evidence of them helping Hizbulla. In the South we have the terrorist state of Gaza that it still rocketing us. We also have a fragile peace with Jordan(where incidedntally no Jew is allowed to live there). Clearly Hizbula and Hamas are Iranian proxies. And then there is the Iranian(direct) threat, and it seems also that Turkey has joined in the bullying of Israel. The wars with the Arabs have produced many refugees from both `sides`. The Jews that were either kicked out or left their homes and had their property and money confiscated will also come into any refugee settlement. So galutniks, isn`t it time you made Aliyah?
Eli Dayagi, Israel, May 23 2010 4:58:00:000PM

occupation
For almost all my jewish friends in the u.s, the continued occupation and suppression of palestinians is the biggest source of disconnect between them and Israel. Palestinians are not mentioned once in your blog.
Faris, U.S, May 23 2010 5:33:00:000AM

The crux of the problem
These Rules of Engagement are a commendable initiative. When it come to the delegitimation of the State of Israel, though, the crux of the problem is the occupation. The alienation towards Israel comes from the immorality of ruling over millions of disenfranchised Palestinians. There is no way around that.
Oriol Poveda, Germany, May 22 2010 12:40:00:000PM

manners
It would be fallacy of taking a few israelis as picturing the whole of the israeli population. However I have observed that many young israelis who are tourists seem to be quite arrogant towards the populations of the countries which they are visiting. They remind me of the ugly Americans of the past or the Nazis teaching of racial superiority. Decades ago when I was studying in Israel for a while the young people were so loving, kind and considerate. Is that still the case? Am I observing only a few aberrants? Or has the educational system changed dramatically?
james mittelstadt, thailand, May 21 2010 5:26:00:000AM

paraphrase by a jaded non-Jew
1. Israel right or wrong. 2. Israel will be beyond reproach when the world is ruled from Jerusalem. 3. Universalist sentiment will be used to cloak particularist ambition. 4. If Israelis stops censuring their Jewish critics, there`ll be less complaint. 5. Israel should tone down its chutzpah, slightly. 6. Israel is a liability, or, nothing exceeds like success.
Adonis Tate, USA, May 20 2010 7:42:00:000PM

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