The two-state solution: A Jewish and moral obligation   (21/04/2009)

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2 states soln
Everyone knows there is no resolution for Israel. Look at history. Who has recognized jews other than to destroy you? Land brings no peace because jews are present in, on, or near it. When are you going to understand this? Luv the stranger till they kill all the jews would help the enemy. How humble to think you do not want the land G_d gave you, why don`t you throw the Torah back in His Face? The other`s sovereignty is at all jews expense. When do you understand they want ALL jews out permanently, gone, forever? The vision you envision is your destruction if you do not fight for what is yours and your jewish soul from the face of the earth. You were told you would have to learn to fight and you will mark my words, you will have to fight. Let`s see if I can help ya. Ever see a jew and the first thing you think of is you wish they were dead, or kill the scum? Or a drawn target in the middle of your forehead? That is what your enemies see not your face, or your nice comments or anything else, get it? You want your land, fight for it!
Roshea, USA, Jul 5 2009 9:33:00:000AM

time to get real
The uncomfortable truth is, we are surrounded by millions of people-- someone might even dare to call them our enemies-- who quite literally want to slaughter us and blow us to pieces. Most people, even religious Jews, do not wish to come to terms with this fact. In the viewpoint expressed in this article, I believe the author draws from basic loci of morality which are very much at odds with what the Torah really says. First of all, I believe that this outlook is pernicious and dangerous for Israel. The Arabs/Palestinians in fact do not really want a two state solution, the proof being that they do not have it. Yet, when a Jew, especially a religious Jew, espouses the two state Oslo vision he is legitimizing the basic claims of out enemies, that we do not have a right to out land. Carried to it logical conclusion we do not have a right to Tel Aviv either. In other words, epousing Oslo weakens Israel and grants legitimacy to the claims our enemies use to wage war against us. When someone fails to see this, unfortunately, it`s usually a symptom of the liberal academic tendency to divorce an academic, scholarly proclivity from real life. But to thrive as a people and do what we have to do we have to get real and not indulge in these sort of virtual reality fantasies. Rabbi Shimon in the Mechilta said that the best of snakes- squash its head, and the best of goyim in a time of war- kill. Unfortunately, we have a state of affairs in which I cannot know who the next shahid will be. And I don`t know which gentle looking elderly Arab man will pass on information which will facilitate the murder of Jews. Do I advocate taking the law into my own hands? No. But I would not dare to garb flighty sentiments floating between Jupiter and the asteroid belt with Jewish morality and authentic Torah. What authentic Torah has to say about the morality of the situation is something else entirely, and something which I pray our leaders realize and internalize.
Micha Lindenberg, Israel, May 13 2009 10:51:00:000PM

I totally disagree.
Sacred means holy,so that relevant sentence meaningless. The SHI has no true sense of world & Jewish history and its tue meaning. To cut a long story short, all the morality & Human Rights value judgments are with Jewish moral & legal rights for world Jews to settle & live for ever in EY our homeland as Biblically set out. One can bow to false eye level ethics,as did eg the L of N did re: Germany,Italy & Japan in the 1930s. So you could not have got it more wrong.
Nachman, England, May 4 2009 9:09:00:000PM

No to the two state evil
I heard a quote: "One thing man learns from history is that man does not learn from history." God gave the land to Israel and the people should keep it and shut up and not give in to the world. The last I heard is that the majority of the world is against Israel. Israel is the land that God picked out for HIS people and now the people want to give some of it back? I`m a not even a Jew and yet I pray for Israel for the Jews are God`s chosen people or race. So, should the Jewish people give in to the world`s solultion for Israel then they are fools. No country or the world itself should tell a country what to do. Israel is the apple of God`s eye and who will be the first to spit into HIS eye? Go ahead and make HIS day! I support God on blesswing Israel not tear the nation into pieces or even divide it among the enemy of Israel. Thinking the two state solution will bring peace is a joke. Peace is made from a strong arm with compassion but not weak and then add the icing of God Almighty on top of all that you will have a great nation Israel!!!
Steve West, United States, May 4 2009 5:31:00:000PM

Doniel`s article
We (Lois and I) totally agree with your vision of the need and hopes for a two state solution. It may be beyond our current reach, may seem as an impossible goal, but that is no excuse for not trying.fulfilling our obligation as a caring person and a caring Jew.
Dick Guntheer, USA, Apr 26 2009 8:06:00:000PM

2 State solution and morality
There are at least two major problems with Hartman`s essay; 1. Morality ought not to be separated from feasibility or the task of putting ideals into practice. This is a principal and defining characteristic of Torah and our vision of ethical monotheism. It is true that "din" and the moral vision may differ. However it is also true that in considering what is proper that ideas and ideals must be subjected to the test of being right in both the eyes of God and of humans. The vision is not one of tactics but a way of getting a glimpse of the Holy Path. So the discussion should be on what ideals and practical limits should inform the search for a right way, if not the right way. 2. There are numerous Jewish ideals at play when we consider appropriate visions of how to live together with Palestinians. They include proper treatment of the gerim/strangers among us - both those non Jews who live in Israel proper and in the West Bank and Gaza.They include the definition and responsibilities of a Jewish State as opposed to only a State for Jews. They include the challenge of a liberal, humane democracy in the context of mutual hatred and mistrust. I, for one, have never been thrilled by the notion of a two state solution since it is based on some exclusionary vision, not an encompassing/unifying one --hence it denies the Onenes of God and of the Created World. Perhaps the real moral vision is one State where multiple ethnic and faith ( and non faith) communities and individuals can live together in respect and tolerance of each other. I think it would be useful in this time of change to consider how non Jews are treated in Eretz Yisrael by the Jewish State. Perhaps as we improve on this task we will gain insights into how to bring together the Vision and the Path toward a Holy Community where we can experience and express the vision of Shalom.
Robert Agus, United States, Apr 23 2009 7:04:00:000PM

2 state solution
What he is saying is, IF it were possible to gain a true peace via the two state solution, he would be for it, as opposed to those who say they are against the two state solution EVEN IF the only issue holding up a true peace is our refusal to proceed with the two state solution. No rational person can disagree.
Harry J., USA, Apr 23 2009 6:35:00:000PM

Fascinating
It would be very interesting to see you debate anyone in the pro-Eretz Yisrael religious camp, the one that elected at least 4 and as many as 67 (exaggerated, I admit) as opposed to the Meimad party that did not pass the bar. Barring that, could you possibly ghostwrite an article such an opponent would write? This article seems to disregard that such a possibility exists..
Gidon, Israel, Apr 21 2009 3:41:00:000PM

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